killclaudio: (Victoria Ben Bed)
[personal profile] killclaudio
The Physical Therapy AU has reached 5000 words, including a rather pathetic synopsis, and it still feels like I've barely started. I reckon it's going to be pushing 30k by the time I've finished. That's about ten times as long as anything I've ever written. But I'm not panicking. I'm not. THIS IS ME NOT PANICKING!

Ahem. The adorable [livejournal.com profile] nos4a2no9 has already volunteered to take a look at it for me, but if anyone felt like providing a third or fourth pair of eyes, that would be fabulous. Because apparently I need feedback constructive criticism to have my hand held, because I'm four. Hi.

Or you could come and tell me whether or not you think Fraser loves Victoria, and why? That would be hugely helpful. I've been racking my brains about this, trying to decide how to write about Victoria from Fraser's perspective, and this is as close as I can get;

I think Fraser feels responsible for Victoria; it's his fault, after all, that she ended up in gaol. Lots of people reason this out by saying she deserved it, but what's important here is what Fraser thinks, and clearly Fraser thinks she didn't deserve it. He defends her to his father in VS, implying that she had no choice because she was "living with the men who planned the robbery". Besides, it's not as though we want justice for the people we love; we want mercy.

I think by the time VS takes place, ten years after they survived the storm together, the survivor's bond and whatever love they may have felt is mostly gone. What Fraser feels instead is guilt and responsibility. He needs to try and make it up to her, to support her, to trust her in a way he didn't before. ("I won't leave...not this time.") We know how much Fraser hates slipping up or making a mistake and he must, he must, set it right. Fraser has a soft spot for things that are hurt and suffering, and I think he always regrets not being able to help Victoria more.

There are certain qualities in Victoria that I think Fraser would respond to; she's intelligent, tough, independent, single-minded. I think he would prefer that to someone who agrees with every word he says and fawns over him. And if he's a little frightened of her, well, it's a rush of adrenaline, like being on a roller coaster. Scary but fun. Besides which, I think she knows him very well. That moment on the train, when she's leaving, she knows what to say to him that will make him go with her. She understands that he hates having regrets.

I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume that when Victoria is finally gone, Fraser will start to feel better. He did his duty to the law; he told the police what she was doing. He did his duty to her; he let her escape. I firmly believe that he wanted to go with her because he was frightened of making a mistake a second time, not because he actually needed her any more. I'm not sure, but maybe I want to write a Fraser who wakes up and realises that he's spent the last ten years getting over Victoria, and he hasn't let himself realise it until this moment, because he's been too busy berating himself for his betrayal. Or something.

Also? I may have been reading too much of Gerard Manley Hopkins' poetry. It's doing odd things to my brain.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-11 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spuffyduds.livejournal.com
I'd love to see the AU!

I don't know anything about physical therapy, so I can't check for realism. But I'm pretty good with grammar/tenses/POV stuff.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-11 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
Oh, you darling, thank you! I'm not too bothered about the little things at the moment, since it's only half done. I just want to make sure it has no inherent problems; the plot or charactersiation, mainly.

Would you like a Google Docs link or a .doc attachment in an email?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-11 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aingeal8c.livejournal.com
I shall reply with more VS thoughts later. For now I;d like to ask - can I link to this on ds_weekly please? We are woefully short of meta.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-11 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
Of course you can! I would be honoured. It might give me some ideas for Fraser's attitude to Victoria. By all means.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aingeal8c.livejournal.com
I have included it, THANK YOU!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 05:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nos4a2no9.livejournal.com
Pssst you saw [livejournal.com profile] malnpudl's poll on the use and abuse of favorite characters (http://malnpudl.livejournal.com/387374.html), right? And [livejournal.com profile] vsee's entry about Jill Kennedy in "Letting Go" (<a)? They'd be great items to include in [livejournal.com profile] ds_weekly!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aingeal8c.livejournal.com
THANK YOU!

Seriously it's so hard to find meta. I know it's out there but often I don't have enough time in a week to track in down.

That's a great help.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-11 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jem80.livejournal.com
If you need another set of eyes(if you don't have too many already), I wouldn't mind taking a readthrough for you. I love Fraserlettingo fics and it's the least I can do since you do it for me.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
That's brilliant, thank you! And I've emailed you back your story. Sorry it's taken me so long to beta. I'll send you a GoogleDocs link.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nos4a2no9.livejournal.com
Back away from the Gerard Manley Hopkins. Set the poetry down, and step away. It does VERY odd things to your brain! :-)

I think I included a bit of Fraser/Victoria meta in the beta (see, I just typed Hopkins' name and already I'm making awkward rhymes!) so I'll just reiterate that I think he's more in love with the idea of her than he is with the actual woman. She certainly possess qualities he's attracted to, but his entire perception of her is based on someone he met and fell in love with a decade ago. I think it would be interesting to explore what Victoria was like immediately after that robbery. Maybe she turned cold and tough and cruel in prison, and before that she was sweet and honourable and loyal, the kind of person we could really imagine Fraser would fall in love with. Or perhaps she was like a wounded animal, angry but exhausted and wary (Fraser's a soft touch, like you point out) and he felt a tremendous sympathy for her which over time began to feel like love.

I know. I'm a big help. *g*

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
You are a big help, thank you! I actually quite like the idea of Victoria as sweet and honorable and loyal before she went to prison, but given that she helped with a bank robbery, I don't know if I could pull it off. I always saw her as someone who got involved with the wrong people. Sometimes it's as though she feels the world has treated her badly and now she doesn't care if the world suffers in return. But that's sort of difficult to work into a story naturally.

I just typed Hopkins' name and already I'm making awkward rhymes!

You see! There is some kind of arcane magic surrounding Hopkins, I swear.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 08:05 am (UTC)
ext_3554: dream wolf (Default)
From: [identity profile] keerawa.livejournal.com
OK, here's some rambling Fraser/Victoria thoughts, which I might disagree with by the time I get up in the morning. Let me also preface this with a caveat that I can be convinced of several different interpretations of their relationship, in the hands of a talented authors.

First off, I think that Fraser is in love with an ideal of Victoria, based on memories worn smooth by a decade desire and guilt, rather than the woman we saw in the episode.

Second, I think that Fraser maybe was on to something. Victoria is, in many way, a good match for Fraser. She's not just intelligent. Victoria is BRILLIANT. Like, Fraser-brilliant. Victoria has a deep understanding of other people and their motivations, which may have at one point been a true empathy. Fraser has a tendency to overwhelm and dominate those around him, and she doesn't let him get away with that, an absolutely essential quality in a true partner for him.

Third, I suspect that when Fraser originally met Victoria, she wasn't as twisted as we see here. Spending ten years in prison because a man you fell in love with betrayed you could turn a bright and creative mind to the vicious. (Her perspective, of course, but I think at least a part of Fraser would agree. Willie's not doing time, but Victoria did.)

Fourth, I agree that Fraser has a thing for healing the wounded. And for making things right. I think both are part of her appeal.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
I'd never thought about Victoria as an empathetic person before, but you're right, she does read people incredibly well. She reads him very well, which may have drawn him to her. So many people only see Fraser's persona.

That's a really good point about prison having changed her. I like the comparison with Willie, because Fraser has a tendency to think that everyone deserves a second chance, and I think that's what he's trying to offer her after she gets out. I suppose by that point the damage has been done.

You've given me loads to think about, thank you!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ultra-chrome.livejournal.com
I think Fraser was almost in love with Victoria, but not quite. The way I see him, he so desperately wants to find a love like his parents had and therefore someone who could survive the Territories is a good start. Someone strong enough to cope with the loneliness, passionate enough to make him feel wanted after a long absence and creative enough to keep that homecoming special.

Victoria shows all of those traits and so, when she failed to do the right thing by turning herself in, he was going to go with her and give her another chance to make it right. (He could have arrested her right off the bat, but he gave her the chance to prove herself.) Fraser knows he can be persuasive and there was enough spark there for him to think he had a chance. So when she professed to need him and left, even though he was possibly dying in front of her, he'd be hurt, but not broken by her leaving.

If anything, I think Letting Go was more about Fraser learning to trust his instincts about people again. To not let his experience with Victoria destroy his faith in women, or make him too lenient again. Hence his reluctance to get involved with something he would have been up to armpits in any other time.

But that's just me. Also? If you want a couple more eyes, you know I'm more than happy to provide some. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
Oh, I'd made a note somewhere about Victoria being able to survive in the Territories and forgotten to include it, thank you! I love the comparison to Fraser's parents. I'd never thought about that, but he does describe in one episode how they used to dance together without music, and I imagine he has a high standard of love and devotion to try and measure up to. That's brilliant.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spuffyduds.livejournal.com
Could you send me a .doc attachment? I tried Google Docs for the 1st time recently and it was nifty, but, for some strange reason, insists on displaying my whole real name when I do edits. I'm sure I could fix that in the gmail settings somewhere, but haven't figured out how yet. Obv I wouldn't mind you knowing it, but if you ended up with a bunch of betas, I might feel a bit strange about it...

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
Of course! I was just thinking it would be better to send you a .doc, actually, because I'm in the middle of editing GoogleDocs, and it would be a bit of a pain for you to comment on something and find it has moved. Thank you so much for looking at it for me.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vsee.livejournal.com
I think you are very much on the right track with your thinking about Victoria. I don't think he was genuinely in love with her, but did idealize her in the past, because of her beauty and her ability to survive. I liked what someone else said about longing for her because she was tough enough for the climate, and reminded her of his mother. That's a fascinating spin.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
I read your post about Jill Kennedy, and that was hugely helpful, thanks! Why can I never organise my thoughts that coherently? *twirls you back*

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-12 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leafy22.livejournal.com
Ah, the VS episodes addle my brain almost as much as Gerard Manley Hopkins' German nuns, but for what it's worth...

I agree that Fraser's feelings include guilt and responsibility as much as anything else. I wonder also if - amongst other things - *time* is a factor in their 'relationship' - they start off in a time almost apart from time itself during the storm but then Fraser is as unable to avoid doing his duty as he is unable to slow the remaining time they have together.

Time then smudges and blurs Fraser's memories. Their short spell together is replayed over and over and a few days is stretched into ten or so years til it becomes distorted (particularly when it becomes mixed with a loneliness increased with aging, bereavement and displacement) - some of this could be true for Victoria too. Her re-appearance is a second chance but it's sudden and Fraser has to make very big decisions in very short periods of time - the biggest of all being the one on the station platform.

I can imagine Fraser having quite a strict daily timetable - early mornings, consulate duties, walks for Dief, etc. Victoria's presence throws him completely out of this structure. So does his hospitalisation although this gives him a chance to regroup and think about not waiting for second chances anymore which is why he touched Ray K's inner calf and thigh within hours of meeting him...

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
Eeee, that's a wonderful idea! You know, you could write a fantastic short piece just on the idea of time in Fraser and Victoria's relationship. *prods you* I really like the idea of Victoria throwing Fraser out of his daily routine, and thus out of his comfort zone and perhaps his ability to reason the situation out. Like you said, he suddenly has to make decisions in a short period of time. *ponders*

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leafy22.livejournal.com
You know, you could write a fantastic short piece just on the idea of time in Fraser and Victoria's relationship. *prods you*

Aaargh! But Victoria is the reason why my ds_shakespeare fic has ground to a juddering halt! *screams and runs for the hills*

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
No, no, don't run, it's fine! If you want me to bounce ideas off me, you know where I am. Not that I can pretend to be all that inspiring.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the_antichris.livejournal.com
I think he loved her then (as much as you can love someone you don't know), and I'm with you on the survivor's bond/love being gone or morphed into responsibility by the time of VS, but I think Fraser just doesn't have enough experience with his own emotions to tell the difference. Which is probably generally true for anyone he's attracted to (until he meets Ray! /rabid OTPer), given what he says about it in An Invitation To Romance.

And I'd love to see the AU!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-08-13 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kill-claudio.livejournal.com
I think Fraser just doesn't have enough experience with his own emotions to tell the difference.

That's an excellent point, and something I hadn't thought of. After all, he would only have been in his early twenties when they met, no?

Oddly enough, I'd never connected what he says in AItR with Victoria. In more general terms, people who are looking to fall in love generally do, but that doesn't mean that what they feel is necessarily love. I think up to that point Fraser might have accepted that it's his lot in life to be lonely, and I love the idea that he just might not be familiar enough with his own emotions to know. ♥♥♥